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Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead

Simon Brew


The shock moment of Torchwood: Children Of Earth saw Ianto Jones suddenly killed. But why are people protesting to bring him back to life?

Published on Aug 3, 2009

It's been some weeks now since the blistering Torchwood: Children Of Earth burst onto our screens, and in the aftermath of its American broadcast too, it's fair to say that the show's profile and popularity has simply never been higher. You could rightly suggest that the idea of going with a five episode third season has been a major success.

But weeks later, it's still the events at the end of the fourth episode that continue to cause ripples. And that's the moment where, without a hugely dramatic moment, Ianto Jones died. Personally, I love the fact that Torchwood considers no character sacrosanct and above the perils of their work (Captain Jack excepted, of course, although he was mentally tortured enough in CoE), and having sat through a seventh season of 24 where even a major biological agent couldn't topple Jack Bauer, it's refreshing to see a programme where genuinely everyone could be in danger.

It's a trick that shows such as The Wire, Battlestar Galactica and The Sopranos put at the heart of their scripts. No matter how popular the character, no matter how vital they were to the ratings, if the bullet had their name on it, the character concerned was going down. And now? Russell T Davies and the Torchwood team have been, rightly, following a similar philosophy. Torchwood has now lost three major cast members across six or seven episodes, and not because of a dispute with an actor or anything like that. The characters concerned died because the story demanded that they do so.

And yet, off the back of the death of Ianto, Internet campaigns have started to spring up. Take a look at www.saveiantojones.com, for instance, which has notched up nearly 60,000 hits at the time of writing. The site is urging people to send a packet of coffee to Mark Thompson at the BBC, echoing the protests that saved the Jericho TV show in the States (where mountains of nuts were sent to CBS, as a show of fan support for the programme). Only in the case of Jericho, the protest was about the canning of the whole programme, not the death of one character.

Digging through the guest book for the site, the BBC is, to be fair, responding to such protests too. "Ianto's death is particularly poignant and right for the story because it puts great pressure on the character of Captain Jack. Captain Jack has to pay the ultimate price, given the sins of the past and his own tragic immortality," reads one reply. Personally, I find it hard to argue with that.

But surely, should Ianto Jones return, it would undermine all of the good work that Torchwood: Children Of Earth did? Granted, fans were given a glimmer of hope when they went and checked the end of the revived Doctor Who's third season, when Russell T Davies slammed down on the reset switch in a major way. But to his credit, despite fans chanting the name of the character at Comic-Con in San Diego the other week, Davies isn't budging on this one. In Torchwood, he's explained, people stay dead, specifically including Ianto Jones.

In some instances, fans have threatened to boycott a fourth season of Torchwood should Ianto not return. Personally, my suspicion is that a) they won't do that, and that b) the show would lose far more credibility if it did bring him back. Ianto was a strong character, and the best way now to prove that is to dig out the season one and two boxsets, rather than fudging his return to the series.

The removal of a major character still presents problems for the fourth season of Torchwood, perhaps more so now that John Barrowman has revealed that he's in talks to appear in the next season of Desperate Housewives. At the moment, the show is seemingly centred on Gwen, her fella, and their unborn child.

But then that's the gamble that the show has taken, and it surely deserves credit for doing so, rather than condemnation and fan campaigns. I have no issue with those fighting for the return of Ianto, and it's great to see such lively support of the show, but I sincerely hope their campaign fails, which it surely will. For Torchwood now needs to continue to have the courage of its convictions, and for that to happen, the reset switch simply isn't an option. Ianto needs to stay dead.

Still, for the BBC's Mark Thompson, all of this discussion around the show delivers on the gamble to move the show to BBC One in such a different format.

And, as a by-product, it's done his coffee supplies no harm whatsoever...

 

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Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By AndyBee 1 August 3, 2009 08:17:43 AM

Didn't RTD say at SDCC that Ianto is dead - and will stay dead? Even the glove can't resurrect him. Granted this is the same RTD who said Rose was gone for good after the s2 finale of Doctor Who, however I'm willing to believe him this time.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By viszy 1 August 3, 2009 09:04:45 AM

Argh, I wish you wouldn't put giant spoilers in the headlines when us poor colonials are still waiting for it to screen

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By DamonD 1 August 3, 2009 09:05:08 AM

Confession time? I never gave a rat's ass about Ianto. So credit to Children of Earth, yet again, for managing to make me just a tiny bit interested in the guy. That said, death is the best thing for him...if you see what I mean. Like Adric his finale will make him more memorable than if he was still around making coffee and trying to be funny.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By BadKitty 1 August 3, 2009 09:37:26 AM

Hmm. I'm afraid I've got to disagree. I totally understand the ardent fan desire to bring Ianto Jones back and I, personally, hope the campaign succeeds. I hate it when my favourite characters a/ don't get enough screen time, b/ get killed off. I'd still be angry today if Spock hadn't been brought back after 'The Wrath of Khan' and I'd still be pissed off at the end of Buffy if they hadn't brought Spike back in 'Angel'. Interesting characters played well are so rare (for me, anyway.. I don't get attached easily) I'd love it if they found a cool interesting way to resurrect Ianto in the future. In my humble opinion, if the fans really want something in significant enough numbers, WHY NOT find a way to make it happen? It doesn't have to cheapen anything.. not if it's done well. (I suppose it is a hard thing to do well. But, ah come on, writers! Embrace the challenge! It's sci-fi! Make it so! ;-) )

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By cordas 1 August 3, 2009 09:39:13 AM

I am struggling to remember Ianto being popular pre-death... In the 1st season he was just the butler/chauffeur, who happened to have a rather bizarre metal/woman fetish. He got a bit more a role in the 2nd series and was promoted to fully time supporting cast. I can't remember anyone going on about him that much.... Maybe its just that he snogged Barrowman a fair bit and became a fag hag wet dream. As for anyone cutting off their face to spite their nose by refusing to watch S4... Ah ha ha ha ha ha only one world really comes to mind loser! (well actually a few more words spring to mind but they would be censored) Ianto died because he believed, because he wanted the world/universe to be a better place, because he wanted it to match his ideals. The 456 just pointed out reality to him and Jack, that just because you are 'righteous and good' doesn't mean that you a) have a grasp on reality or b) that you are going to win.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By cordas 1 August 3, 2009 09:46:57 AM

"In my humble opinion, if the fans really want something in significant enough numbers, WHY NOT" Heroes. There is a reason why not... fans didn't like the start of the 2nd season because it was "too slow" so the writers went into overdrive and the show fell to pieces. Sorry but Torchwood is drama not reality TV, the audience doesn't get a vote as to how the plot develops. The best TV shows always do things that hurt the cast and by proxy the audience, they engage on a level that makes you care. If you take away the danger/hurt then there is no fear and no connection with the story being told. Bringing back Ianto would make the sacrifice Jack made in CoE pointless, because if Ianto can be brought back why not his grandson, why not Tosh, why not everyone who died? (Apart from Owen cos I am sure he is coming back as some radiation zombie out to destroy the world)

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By simonbrew 1 August 3, 2009 09:50:41 AM

@viszy: Sorry :-( I've held this article off for two weeks longer than planned to let the show make its way round the world, and try not to spoil it for anyone, but sooner or later it was something we felt we had to address.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Shandora 1 August 3, 2009 09:55:59 AM

It would seem to me that the character of Gwen is just as excepted as Jack when it comes to harm done to her, especially if you consider how many times she's been put into a situation of mortal peril in the first two seasons of the show, yet surviving almost without a scratch. I am not saying Gwen should be killed off, I'd just like to know what magic powers she has. As for Ianto's death being used to impact Jack's character and the way it's been explained, I dislike it immensely as it's basically saying the character in itself had value only as a plot device, when to many fans he was just as (if not, dare I say it, more) integral to the show as Jack. The most useless point that has been used to argue for Ianto's death is its supposedly being more like 'real life'. Suddenly the show has to be realistic about this one death when it has resurrected at least three characters before, every episode has aliens in it and there's everything from singularity scalpels to rifts in time and space involved? Sci-fi especially is a genre that relies on its most driving characters, and not so much on realism.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By cordas 1 August 3, 2009 10:06:45 AM

Ianto was just as sacred as Gwen, well until he bit the bullet... So were Tosh, Owen and the cast of Dr Who and SJA, until they died (if they died). You do realise this is fiction, that Ianto was just a character who's purpose was to serve the plot... The plot they had for CoE was a dark nasty hard callous one, it was meant to make people uncomfortable and to make them think and it did. RTD and co decided that the Ianto character needed to die in order to position the Jack character in a place where he would effectively murder his grandson to save 10% of the children of earth. I wonder how much of the Ianto storm in a tea cup is just a distraction for some people so they don't have to think about the more troublesome questions the show raised....

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By BadKitty 1 August 3, 2009 10:35:44 AM

"Heroes. There is a reason why not... fans didn't like the start of the 2nd season because it was "too slow" so the writers went into overdrive and the show fell to pieces. Sorry but Torchwood is drama not reality TV, the audience doesn't get a vote as to how the plot develops." Okay, first off, don't even get me started on 'Heroes'. I'm hugely PO'd that they killed Daphne and the ongoing thing with Sylar, I just.... Nevermind. Forget it. I'm not saying the fans should get to vote on what happens. Obviously that would be awful. All I'm saying is that the writers *should* listen if the fans are being very vocal about loving or hating some aspect of the show. Listening to feedback can HELP them do their jobs better. They shouldn't be afraid to listen. That's all. Bringing characters back (to life, from "permanent exile", from other dimensions, etc) is fine if it's written well and serves a purpose. It doesn't render anything retrospectively pointless (Spock still sacrificed himself, Buffy still sacrificed herself, Spike still.. you get the picture.. bringing them back didn't devalue their sacrifices) or mean they have to do the same for everybody ("oh well if we're bringing one person back.. might as well bring them all!" When has it EVER meant that? There are always extenuating circumstances, always story specifics, when it's done. And when it's done well it's great, in my opinion.) The only times I've ever been annoyed by a character "coming back" (in a big way) was when it was crappily written. If/when it's done well and it's a character I like then colour me ecstatic. I'll continue to hope they manage that somehow on Torchwood with Ianto. No-one's going to convince me that it would, ON PRINCIPLE, cheapen anything to bring him back. Only that it would if it were written badly. And THAT wouldn't be the fans fault.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By lovethatjonesboy 1 August 3, 2009 01:21:58 PM

If I don't see a rift in Cardiff and Ianto serving coffee, I will not be watching Season 4, because they have taken away everything that was unique about Torchwood. Furthmore, I will not be spending any money on products. The last thing I want to watch is "Gwenwood" Look, Torchwood is the perfect vehicle for bringing someone back. After all, if people can suspend disbelief enough to overlook the dreadful plot holes, then bringing Ianto back should be easy.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Tardigger 1 August 3, 2009 02:16:06 PM

@cordas: "I am struggling to remember Ianto being popular pre-death..." Actually, Ianto was supposed to die during the Cyberwoman episode in Series 1. He was saved because of his already immense popularity with the fans (RTD was listening back then). Gwen was supposed to become the main love interest for Jack, but those plans were changed and the Ianto character took a bigger and more romantic role in Series 1 because of fan interest (RTD was still listening). Ianto was supposed to be the dead-but- walking-and-talking-not-quite-zombie character during the second half of Series 2 but, you guessed it, he was deemed “too popular” with the fans. (Who knew RTD could listen so long?) John Barrowman has said in interviews that they (meaning producers, writers, cast) knew that Ianto and Janto were popular but did not realize the extent of that popularity until they started doing fan conventions. They were surprised at the fan response to the character and pairing. Unfortunately, they really didn’t start doing conventions until after Series 3 started filming, with the vast majority of conventions occurring after the series wrapped up. What they learned from the conventions surprised them: fans didn’t particularly connect with Gwen; fans wanted Jack with Ianto, and, most importantly, Ianto was overwhelmingly popular with the fans. But in Children of Earth, Ianto, one of the show’s two most popular characters, was dead. He was killed for no reason except that RTD is not a good enough writer to advance his story without reverting to an overused plot device. Well, overused by RTD at least, a man who has stated that he loves to kill characters because it makes him happy. Ianto’s death serves no purpose. It was poorly and sloppily written. It didn’t advance the story because Jack any external impetus to move him towards the decision to sacrifice his grandson; Jack always does what is for the greater good, from sacrificing Jasmine to the fairies in “Small Worlds” to sending Tommy back to certain death in “To the Last Man.” RTD and Julie Gardner are now saying that Ianto had to die so that Jack could be a hero. Nonsense. The show runners should have known what the fans have always known: Captain Jack Harkness has always been a hero. CoE was a brilliantly acted and directed miniseries with stunning cinematography and special effects. It was also a poorly and inconsistently written hopeless, grim and nihilistic piece of science fiction. As a genre, science fiction distinguishes itself as always leaving the viewer or reader with hope, no matter how small the glimmer, for the future of mankind. CoE failed to deliver on that hope, so fans have attached themselves to the only hope they could find: the return of Ianto Jones. RTD says it’s not going to happen, that on Torchwood dead means dead, even though in the past he has brought back Suzie (They Keep Killing Suzie), Rhys (End of Days), Owen (Dead Man Walking), Ianto (Cyberwoman), Gwen (They Keep Killing Suzie) and Jack (too many times to count). No, according to RTD, Ianto has to stay dead to preserve the realism of the series. Preserve the realism in a series that saw a dead man regrow his exploded body from parts of his skull and arm, a three-headed human child smoking monster in a poison-filled fish bowl and, my favorite, every government on the planet agreeing to round up ten percent of their children to turn over to the monsters without a single dissenter. (Has RTD ever met a politician?) RTD hasn’t stopped listening, he’s just too stubborn to admit he was wrong. On a more personal note, no one else in this thread felt it necessary to insult (losers) or make derogatory comments (fag hag’s wet dream), so why did you?

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By cordas 1 August 3, 2009 02:46:18 PM

LMAO. Since when has SciFi distinguished itself for always leaving the viewer/reader with hope? I can think of plenty Scifi thats bleak and hopeless, but still very good. Also what qualifies hope anyway.... Surely the fact that humanity wasn't wiped out is quite a good outcome... The fact that Gwen, Rhys and bump survived is good isn't it... Or is it just you loosing your favourite character thats snuffed out your hope? I am also curious as to how Ianto gained such a cult status in 3 episodes that RTD went back in time to re-shoot parts of the 4th episode to save a character who had had only a few minutes of screen time and was just the coffee boy... Yes TW can bring back Ianto, and if its well written then I won't complain. I just don't see the need to bring him back, and to me it would lessen the shock and horror that his death had in CoE, and thats not because of any poor writing. How daft do you have to be to think that RTD wrote Ianto into a corner that killed him because he couldn't think of anything better? Surely you can't be expecting anyone to believe that?

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By cordas 1 August 3, 2009 02:48:41 PM

P.S. I didn't mean to insult anyone and if you want to use paragraphs you need to use " " without spaces.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Feefers 1 August 3, 2009 03:04:43 PM

I'm sure the legions of Ianto fans will seek me out and beat me into a bloody pulp, but Ianto was a pretty rubbish character that as far as I could tell, made coffee for people and complained about making coffee for people, he never evolved really that much during his time always just being this bloke from Torchwood 1. Now zombie Ianto, there's some milage! Perhaps a cross over with Being Human might work as well, but Spooks Vs Torchwood would still be where my money lies at.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By hysterical_woman_381 1 August 3, 2009 03:20:33 PM

@Tardigger Thank you for yur eloquent post. Saved me so much time in expressing my thoughts. I would just add that the Jack/Ianto relationship was very low on my list of reasons for being interested in Ianto Jones. Ianto is the only character left with any depth or subtlety. Jack is a caricature of as superhero. His broad, tasteless humor and sexual innuendo don't appeal to me, and deep dark secrets don't really count as depth when they are only used as an excuse to shoehorn characters into a remake of Quatermass for the writers' amusement. Gwen, while she was certainly more mature and likeable in CoE, is still tactless and still manages to make everything about herself, even to the point of asking Jack to stay 'for me' at the end of CoE. Ianto was the foil that humanized Jack, and he was more personable and relatable than Gwen. He was the reason I watched CoE after the deaths of Owen and Tosh. The lack of Ianto, if he doesn't return, is the reason I won't be watching a season four or beyond, and I really don't feel I'll be missing anything.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By sylko 1 August 3, 2009 03:25:47 PM

I like Gwen. It's great to have a strong female lead. Ianto was okay, but never was very important to the plot. I loved Tosh and was sad to see her go, but it's also nice to have a show that keeps me on my toes. When there is a real feeling that the characters might die, the episodes are that much more exciting.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Inphinity 1 August 3, 2009 03:51:46 PM

Many posts here are quite thoughtful and passionate. I think there are two issues about Ianto's death. 1) His death DOES make sense here. He dies for what he believes in, and, for love of Jack. He could have stayed behind, and safe but he didn't. Heroism, as many of you have pointed out. The second issue is 2) Sometimes a character is so well-written and well-played that they touch us in a deep, archetypal way and Ianto did that as well. Complete and total realism is what reality tv is about, not scifi. Often science fiction IS about change and seeing a higher ideal of ourselves. Bringing Ianto back supports the fantasy of Science-Fiction - our hopes and dreams and connection to what the character represents. Even if it doesn't make the best, most reasonable script...

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Headache2112 1 August 3, 2009 05:13:02 PM

Now if we can just get rid of Captain Jack. Actually, I'd prefer the Captain Jack that Barrowman portrays in his "Doctor Who" episodes. The version he plays in "Torchwood" is unbearable.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By savage2003 1 August 3, 2009 05:26:51 PM

At least you're acknowledging it's more than just "nine hysterical women" (thanks for that RTD). But the real reason Ianto needs to come back is withou him Torchwood will become "The Gwen Cooper Show. And there is no way in hell I will watch that.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Soupie 1 August 3, 2009 09:06:43 PM

Or Savage2003, it could become the Gwen and Rhys show and their lovey doveyness is almost as cringeworthy as that of Jack and Ianto's bottom squeesies! I didnt think Ianto was much of a charector, even in the episode where they all go to visit their families, even his relatives were washed out. This is the time to inject new blood into it and perhaps a charector that will give love machine Jack a run for his money. But am not adverse to more eye candy :o))

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By cordas 1 August 3, 2009 10:22:07 PM

It all depends what Torchwood is when it comes back.... It might not even have Gwen in it... They could start with a completely new cast and even a new location.... Although I doubt they would go that far, but its not beyond my imagination to think there is still the rift in Cardiff maybe UNIT or some other government department could set up a station there to monitor / guard the rift.....

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Soupie 1 August 3, 2009 10:54:04 PM

Yes Codas and they all relocate to..... Scotland and we aquire a wad of Scottish speaking folk .. but with the same scripts :o))

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By BeccaDG 1 August 3, 2009 11:18:31 PM

Given whether or not Ianto Jones should or shouldn't be brought back is simply a matter of opinion, and each person is entitled to theirs. I won't say more about that specifically than I believe with all my heart that Ianto Jones should be brought back. That said I would like to address some points in the article that I feel are misleading or entirely eronious. 1) I can't say, having never followed The Wire and The Sopranos, if those series may have left every character ever killed dead. I can say they aren't sci fi series. I can also say that Battlestar Galactica has brought back a character that was suppposedly dead. They brought back Kara "Starbuck" Thrace. For all the "serious drama" it presented, or attempted to, it was a sci fi series and as such it did not treat death as unalterable. 2) Torchwood has now lost three major cast members across five episodes, not six, not seven episodes. It was five episodes -- Exit Wounds, Day One, Day Two, Day Three, and Day Four. While that isn't precisely one-a-day it is more than one every two. 3) People in Torchwood don't stay dead. Suzie Costello, Rhys Williams and Owen Harper are each Torchwood characters that while lacking Captain Jack Harkness's immortality were brought back from the dead. Suzie and Owen may each have been brought back with a glove, Rhys Williams was not. Rhys Williams also hasn't been killed off a second time. The show has allowed someone besides Captain Jack Harkness to die and survive. http://www.saveiantojones.com/

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By simonbrew 1 August 4, 2009 08:39:35 AM

Lots of fair points in the comments here, especially the Kara Thrace one :-) Even appreciating that Torchwood has brought characters back before, I do think it would be a critical mistake to resurrect Ianto. The show took a far harder edge with CoE, with spectacular results for my money, and it would undermine that work to bring Ianto back at this stage. IMO, he'll be a far stronger character for meeting his demise.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By stuxmusic 1 August 4, 2009 11:33:11 AM

dag! that's a lot of comments. I never liked him much, glad the series can start fresh with some new cast members.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By DangerousDave 1 August 4, 2009 02:25:09 PM

Actually Battlestar Galactica didn't resurrect Kara Thrace. They discovered her body on the 'Faux Earth' - burned and in her Viper, when the Humans and rebel Cylons found it after joining forces. The Kara Thrace that returned was implied to be a creation (possibly a Cylon) of the god-like race represented by the invisible 'Caprica Six' and 'Gaius Baltar' characters.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Utini42 1 August 4, 2009 06:21:31 PM

Maybe Ianto should come back. Whenever a dead character has been resurrected it's always worked out just fine. Maybe Gwen can have his body put on ice and then he'll be brought back as zombie Ianto. One thing for sure, in TW there is no back from the dead without serious problems. I was thinking that Jack's grand son would have more reason to come back. He and Jack are genetically linked.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Aran 1 August 5, 2009 06:20:20 PM

I've been reading about it everywhere and I believe that what people should ask is : is this a sfi show - a drama show or perhaps a soup-opera? Because I'm a sfi freaky ( I've been reading sfi for more than 20 years) and I still don't know. In the 3 season you take the alien out and put terrorist and you would not notice the diference, apart from Jack 5 deaths. I have seen it so many times, there's no real respecto for sfi fans. Writers believe that because it's sfi everything is a go, but that's no the case. In my experience, we are the more demanding folk there is, we adore and respecti science and at the bottom of it we believe that the human race deserves to be saved. After watching Torcwood and Dr. Who I don't think the get the real meaning of sfi.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Aura 1 August 7, 2009 12:42:32 PM

It's sad he died, I will still watch Torchwood but sorry, it can never be the same without Ianto in it.

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Codgin 1 August 15, 2009 02:12:50 PM

I couldnt agree more with this article, people really are being silly, a story needs tragedy and if killing off a main charchter can create that level of tragedy and help steer the story forward, bravo to the writers, its brave, it makes the story more involving and its sad all in all great drama. Lost killed Charlie, terribly sad, but very rewarding, final fantasy 7 killed off aeris terribly sad but rewarding, harry potter killed off sirus black terribly sad but rewarding, if anything is talked about the most in a story its when a charchter dies and it was like damn I can not believe it, and then you go WAIT no one is safe, theirs a real level of danger, and everytime a crisis crops up you're like oh no oh no oh no, dont no one die! lol. If people don't understand this, turn off, more shame on them, and if bbc or any writer caves into this, prepare to watch a show swan dive into a shallow pit of poop

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By medallion 1 August 20, 2009 09:18:59 AM

I would just like to say that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and mine is that Ianto Jones should definitely come back. However, I agree that it would be silly to just try to ignore the fact that something happened to him in CoE, and that his return to the show should hold some significance to the plot. But Torchwood is meant to be a sci fi show, so if it is no longer that then I wish they would tell us! I would also like to say that you cannot really compare two different tv shows, they all have different writers with different ideas of how the tv show will go, and the difference between the character deaths in those tv shows is that this one has caused so much uproar. And if you take away Ianto Jones, you also remove the thing that could torment Jack the most. I mean, sure, the fact that he's no longer alive would really hurt him I'm sure, but realistically, in a tv show, that is very boring and would last maximum one episode. If RTD wants to keep making Torchwood about sacrifice, there has to be something to sacrifice! And death is not the worst thing in the world. Be creative!!!

Re: Why Torchwood’s Ianto Jones needs to stay dead
Posted By Harlech1000 1 November 17, 2009 09:11:17 PM

He doesn't need to stay dead because a lot of viewers need a programme that gives you hope. Torchwood was that. A group of people battling to protect the world but living as well. It was also the first time a gay relationship was seen (without causing huge protest!). I for one want Ianto Jones and Jack back together again. Otherwise what sort of programme is it? Russell said it was going to be more realistic and not too dark but it seems that like almost everyother tv show creator - they just can't stick to a winning formula. They have to muck it about until it is unrecognisable from the original concept. That is how you lose viewers/ratings/shows. Thank Heavens For Fan Fiction, is what I say!
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